Too Many Frocks

NATSCast, the official podcast network of the National Association of Teachers of Singing, features a variety of podcasts from different perspectives and backgrounds that relate to the singing industry. One of the newest members, “Too Many Frocks” by Chanda Vander Hart, takes listeners on a “deep dive into the world of the art song pianist.”

Tell us a little about yourself and your music career.

I started out as a solo pianist and got a performance degree from Eastman, but realized that I did not like spending so much time playing alone and was sent off by the marvelous Jean Barr to Europe to specialize in vocal coaching and accompaniment. I was in Milan for a bit, then got a teaching Fulbright grant to Vienna and began collecting degrees here. I have been lucky to work with all sorts of wonderful singers and teachers and was so busy doing things that I forgot to move back to the USA, so now I have been in Vienna for nearly half of my life. Among my degrees is a PhD in historical musicology which focused on art song in nineteenth century Vienna — I am finishing up a book with a similar focus on it right now in fact which I hope to release with a number of recordings on historical instruments.

I have also become increasingly drawn to more and more diverse and bizarre projects. Today, as well we playing standard recitals, I perform regularly with a circus orchestra called The Freestyle Orchestra and co-founded both a multimedia childrens’ initiative called Talespin, Musical Tales for Big and Small and an innovative art song series called Mosaïque where we combine song with all sorts of things, from dance and art to burlesque, fashion and social outreach initiatives. I currently also do quite a bit of lecturing and lecture recitalling at various universities here and abroad. My favorite course that I am teaching this fall is at the University of Music in Vienna. It’s about murder ballads from Schubert to Dolly Parton, and explores them in terms of voice, gender and agency.

Why’d you start a podcast, and how long have you been at it? What’s your posting schedule?

Over time I have become increasingly interested in sociological and structural aspects — which all tie in to gender and class and these sorts of things — and how they impact the classical music field. I like data a lot, and began collecting gender-relevant data on who is accompanying where, having conversations with colleagues and collecting memorabilia — cartoons, books, CD covers — where gender and power dynamics and art song as a business intersect. After a while I had all this material, and while some of it will go into academic articles, I felt like a lot of the interviews needed a platform where the voices telling these stories were really present, and that is where the podcast format is wonderfully appealing. When 90% of performance life shut down thanks to Covid last year, I applied for financing to create a 6 episode podcast, found a wonderful producer in the UK named Bill Lloyd, and got down to it. The project turned into a seven-episode mini-series and I am really proud of what it turned into.

Though I may pick it up in the future and explore gender and art song from a different perspective (I have many other ideas about that…) for now it just exists as this little mini-series, and I am OK with that too at the end of the day.

Why’d you name it “Too Many Frocks”?

The name came out of a conversation with my good friend and mentor Roger Vignoles when I was visiting him in Baden a few years back. We were chatting about some of the gender discrepancies in art song accompaniment, and he asked my opinion about why the boys always seemed to make it to the very top and not the women when it came to the big concerts on the prestigious stages, and we started talking about perceptions and gender stereotypes. At one point, he made the very astute comment that it seemed like there was a perception — from the audience, or organizers or society at large — of a man at the piano accompanying a woman, or two men on stage together that felt comfortable — but if there were two women on stage, there were just “two many frocks”. And I loved that phrasing and asked permission to poach it when the time came.

What are your favorite areas or topics to discuss and why?

I could talk about songs all day. I love the voice and adore partnering singers — making music which highlights the human voice and the piano and tells stories is the absolute best. To me, songs are little miniatures that contain entire universes of meaning and context and expression that are amazing to unpack. I am also an absolute buzzkill feminist who will make everyone laugh uncomfortably at dinner parties and loves getting into really deep discussions at inappropriate times, but I try to reign my nerdy and intense side in and be charming and funny enough to make up for it — at least most of the time.

What have been some of your most memorable episodes?

The episodes that elicited the strongest responses were the third and fourth episodes.I have been asked to speak at several conferences and events, lead discussions on gender and art song piano and even proofread spinoff articles as a direct result, so they clearly resonated.

Can you give us a hint on upcoming topics or guests on the horizon?

If I have the opportunity to develop the pod further I would likely stay with art song and gender and either look at other readings of gender in the songs themselves, and/or how gender is portrayed or performed within art song culture(s). Right now I have to finish this book which is long overdue, but get back to me on this next year — there is a lot more to say!

What other podcasts do you enjoy listening to when you have time?

My brilliant colleague, the music theorist Stephen Rodgers has begun a wonderful podcast called Resounding Verse which I rate very highly. I also am an avid listener of RadioLab, You’re Wrong About and On The Media for non music-related pods, and I found Jad Abumrad’s recent short series on Dolly Parton incredibly inspiring.

Anything else you’d like to share?

Always happy to have a chat, collaborate and hear your feedback! Feel free to get in touch via my website chandavanderhart.com or via social media — I am on all of the standard apps for people over 30.

Listen to “Too Many Frocks.”